Commercial Insurance Prospecting with Eli Diamond

Eli Diamond: Happy to be here, Ben. Thanks for having me.

Ben: we typically start with an introduction on yourself. So if you wouldn't mind, Eli, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background? How did you end up in insurance?

Eli Diamond: Yeah. So my name's Eli Diamond. ⁓ grew up in Syracuse, New York, upstate New York. unorthodox. Most people just fall into insurance. They just get a job and stick with it. ⁓ was kinda ⁓ me. my owned some businesses in town. Didn't really I get into ⁓ They were kinda challenging. ⁓ So Got a job as a workers' comp adjuster, an internship in college. It led to a full time job at the Hartford, a big insurance company. some great relationships there, but I realized I really just fueling a corporate giant. There wasn't necessarily anything in it for me. so I to becoming a broker because I ⁓ represent the owner. And ⁓ that's why do what I do is You know, New York State especially gives them no favors if I can help make something challenging a little easier, you know, insurance and that's why I do it.

Ben: And then tell me you you used to be at one agency that was acquired. Can you walk us through what happened there?

Eli Diamond: Yeah, so Tompkins Insurance was a very reputable agency. Gallagher a ⁓ agency. It's the third largest in the world, I wanna say. I think they flutter between second and third. But saw great opportunity with Tompkins and ⁓ they acquired It's been great so far and it's a lot of better opportunity for ⁓ not only but my clients. So it's been it's been great back.

Ben: What were the first things you had to learn when becoming a broker at Tompkins?

Eli Diamond: Yeah, so whole life people have said you should get into sales, you can talk to anybody, you know I'll be at a diner and I'll talk to the guy next to me like ⁓ I've him for twenty years, you know. So ⁓ my life people have said that. I was enough to get an opportunity, 'cause that's the thing with a new sales job, you know, the ⁓ everyone wants ⁓ sales experience, right? So didn't have I had some insurance background, but I got an interview with Tompkins through who ⁓ in a word basically like, Hey, I think you should interview, you know, Eli. And it hour long. I really talked the whole time. They didn't ask me any questions. it was a very interesting interview, and then at the end of you know, my current boss basically said He did the interview as a favor. He didn't really have intention of hiring me because I wasn't licensed or had really any experience in sales, but was impressed enough to to give me a job, give me a chance, and I've just run with it ever since. So I'm thankful.

Ben: And then you started at Tompkins, what were you focused on?

Eli Diamond: So Tompkins Insurance was more of a generalist agency, I would say. was really nothing they couldn't write, but they ⁓ really require their producers to, know, develop niche markets and become an expert in, say, hospitality or manufacturing or ⁓ construction, know? So ⁓ wrote targeted basically anything under sun, anything I felt I could add value to businesses I was interested in. Gallagher's ⁓ is a niche market, you know, become an expert in that ⁓ really a matter expert. That's what they want. So right now I'm kind of figuring out. Since I wrote so different stuff at Tompkins, I kind of know what I don't like. So now I'm Kinda focusing on probably contracting is probably my focus at this point.

Ben: when you say you everything at Tompkins, are talking personal lines, lines? commercial? ⁓

Eli Diamond: So yeah, so I was hired as a commercial producer, a commercial broker, so I would focus on commercial. Tompkins would have a small personal lines goal, but really was just to write the personal insurance of the business owner. So I never ⁓ and have like hey, let me your auto insurance. Like I never really ask people that. I write personal insurance if I am asked to do so like my client wants me to. ⁓ I think Gallagher refer it strictly to a personal lines producer is what it sounds like. Some things are kind of still in the works on how the gonna go. It's a newer transition, so there's ⁓ things are constantly changing, but yeah, I'm commercial guy, focus on the commercial, that's really what I enjoy.

Ben: And then can you walk me through what the types of interests are that you find maybe harder to place or that you don't enjoy as much?

Eli Diamond: Yeah, so I mean I referenced there was more when I say what I don't like is like and it's a rule of thumb, it doesn't go across every but some of the not for profits, it's very hard to handle a board change. ⁓ So I found, know, we would kick butt for these ⁓ and be ⁓ an an ally a consultant. To their not for profit, but when a new board comes on and it's, ⁓ hey, Ben, my brother, writes insurance, you know, he's a broker too, we're gonna put the business with him. So you could do the best job you could do, politics played a large role. ⁓ plays a role in any business deal to an extent you could argue, but ⁓ found with the not for profits it's a little more so. So ⁓ not that I don't like those people, but I find it sometimes challenging to to ⁓ win the account and then keep it for a long time.

Ben: And then walk me through how do you acquire customers. You just mentioned, you know, people have given you feedback that you're very good at sales, you should go into a sales role, find it easy to communicate with people. What would be the typical trajectory by which you win customers?

Eli Diamond: Yeah, so know, I'm a younger producer, so it really is building a book from the ground up. I inherited some accounts through ⁓ that you know, brokers that retired in our agency, but it's lot of calling, Ben. ⁓ It's a lot of networking events. You wanna known as the insurance guy, right? So if you show up to your buddies ⁓ child's fi fifth birthday party or something, right? And you know, you wanna be known as the insurance guy 'cause you wanna be viewed as a professional. You know, ⁓ like you have the attorney, you have an accountant, you ha like a business has three or four people they rely on. You wanna be one of those people that help make their goal, their goal of running the business and having it be successful. wanna be involved with that and that's really how you wanna be viewed. So you go around hunting for opportunity You know, you cold call somebody and they're like, Yeah, I'd love for you to look at my stuff and you know, they jump right on it. Sometimes that's a little scary because well are they am I gonna get them as a client, then they're just gonna take every call and you know, have my work checked every, you know, year and not really trust what I'm doing for ⁓ So wanna try to stay away from the price driven people. price plays a ⁓ is a ⁓ i for my insurance, sure, you know, it plays a role. But you really just wanna try to find people who view you as more of in a consultant role. That's really how I view the job. It's not so much a sales job. I'm selling a product, you could argue, you know, I'm selling a insurance product, it's not a sale, it's not a tangible item, if you will.

Ben: What are the most of the insurance products in the commercial line space that you end up suggesting to your clients

Eli Diamond: if you nothing about ⁓ commercial insurance, s sure the listeners do, but we're talking, you know, general liability, commercial auto, commercial property, workers comp. You know, that's basics, right? That's what commercial insurance is. From there you have cyber insurance, that's a big one now. ⁓ that would protect a company from, you know, any type data breach. You know, Ben's credit card was acquired and How are we going to mitigate that breach? How are we you know we're obligated to send letters out to inform our clients the data has been compromised? You know, who pays for that? There's a cyber insurance policy that pays for that. So a growing one. it's a little bit of a harder sell than I think it should be in today's world with how much hacking's going on, but that's a growing, growing ⁓ line sell, if you will, policy that we sell.

Ben: Interesting. And has that landscape changed since you started working in insurance at all?

Eli Diamond: so the market has changed. When I entered so on year three as being a broker. When I started, everyone me is the hardest market they have ever seen. You know, the insurance didn't want to write anything. ⁓ And when you would a submission to the underwriters, it was almost as if they were trying to find way not to write it, not to write it. So that softened a little bit. The rates are still pretty high. I'm finally seeing like a couple flat renewals where there isn't a rate increase on the renewal. Workers Comp has really opened up ⁓ into soft market. A lot of carriers want workers comp now, ⁓ whereas the past they didn't. So it's trending a positive direction. ⁓ But just everything else ⁓ that we're the prices you know, post prices are just ⁓ higher than they Ever be like were, and I don't think that's gonna change. So now it's more of a competitive carrier, offering the best coverage you can, and really being advocate for them. You hire a broker as a business owner ⁓ to you in the insurance market. That's really what you do. So it's job to paint the best picture I can of my clients ⁓ and sell to the insurance companies for the best and the best coverage.

Ben: And how does the interaction between you, know, the when you're getting the insurance information and the carrier function right now? I I recall you saying when we spoke a a while ago that you you there's a team that looks after getting the actual quotes from the carriers, is that still true?

Eli Diamond: That is true. So know, I'm using the term broker, agent, producer. They're all the thing. So my job is to I'm a hunter. I go find the opportunity. I gather the I need, s which is like a a supplemental application. The insurance company wants to know what they're insuring, right? So they'll ha require an application that highlights what the company does. gather that You know, I'll take pictures of the property if it's like a strip mall or something, right? another thing we'll get is loss runs. That's their loss history, their claim history. Those are like a roughly what need to put a what we call a submission together. But you're correct. Once ⁓ I gather information, I'm the boots on the ground, if you will, we have a department. that procures all of our quotes. So they are the ones that really spearhead the relationships with the underwriters. The producer myself is involved. You know, I'll call the underwriters when I need to, but I really trust my marketing team build the relationships with the underwriters. You know, they want to see ⁓ insurance on the submission and they go, ⁓ you know, Gallagher always closes what we ⁓ for them and and quote for them. You know, their submissions are quality, they don't lie about what they're insuring, and the exposures are accurate, you know, things like that. So we wanna be put on top of their submission list. An underwriter has a million submissions, right? You wanna be on top of that. So the marketing department isn't is is in charge of going out and getting getting the quotes for us.

Ben: Interesting, is the d do you have a good understanding of what tools they they have at their disposal to get those quotes? Might ⁓ from interviewing a bunch of other agents, I think the feedback I've been getting is that often it's still transacted via email.

Eli Diamond: Yeah, email and phone is ⁓ how it's done. ⁓ far as tools I don't know if there's any special tools. Really, it's it's it comes back to relationships, right? I mean know, I had talking with you prior, so when you reached out to me again, if you if you had reached out to me and I didn't know you, I don't know if I would have come on your podcast. You know what I mean? So it's it's the fact that you just gotta stay in front of these people. You you need them to realize you're a real person too. You our goal is to help the We wanna give Say travelers insurance the business, right? Like if we put submissions to Hartford Travelers and ⁓ are three different carriers, you know, ⁓ who wants it the most? You who's ⁓ who's do we get along with best? What underwriter is, you know, more relaxed than the other? You know, those are kind of the things. And it's really a people driven or relationship driven business stuff.

Ben: And are there particular carriers where if you got a quote from them you would always go with them? Like certain favourites that you have, ⁓ you may may not want to name names, but just how you think about the carrier world in particular.

Eli Diamond: Yeah, I mean each carrier has their own appetite, right? So carriers, like, will never write a roofer. ⁓ know, like they're like that's a very high risk, high claim. If someone falls off a roof it's it's gonna be bad, unfortunately, you know what I mean? So like all ha you kinda learn as you go, which carrier's appetite w is is what it is, you know? So In the construction world, there's only a few, you know, there's a handful of carriers we use, right? But you're not gonna go to all hundred you work with or so, you know, the numbers more than that, but kind of have their their ⁓ markets want, and they'll come in too to our agency and ⁓ and us, like, hey, this is what we want to target, this is what we're competitive at, you know, and they you know, go find us the opportunity and we'll write it for.

Ben: Yeah, exactly. And is the only way you find out about what the appetite of each carrier is by them telling you?

Eli Diamond: I mean it's kinda known some of it like You know, like there's 'cause they they don't really change overnight, right? So they they their appetite ⁓ don't get me wrong, but they a good job too of letting us know, right? So they have like the agency relationship people that'll go around and say, Hey, you know, we're breaking into I don't you know the call it not for profit world. We're breaking into that. We want you know, so we're aggressive on that, send us opportunities on that, you know, so they'll They'll tend to let us know and and it's kinda you just know in the in the industry.

Ben: Really interesting. I I I have the theory that there's some information that theoretically people could get access to, but there's no real platform out there that shows appetite in a very good way.

Eli Diamond: Yeah, there no, there's really not. Like you don't log on to go on a carrier's website and it tells you what they want, right? ⁓ you

Ben: Yeah. It's like behind the scenes, it's almost almost like their secret source, yeah.

Eli Diamond: Right, a little bit. And if you like you like some underwriters now the underwriter's the person who evaluates the risk, right? So hey we have business A B C we send this submission to the underwriter. They're the ones that say, Yeah, we want it, no, we don't. You know, they'll review it and put the put the quote together. So of them will send like newsletters around monthly like, Hey, this is what we're going after, this is what we're competitive in. So they'll kinda let us know that way too. But there's no like no, there's no can't just tell sometimes by looking at the paper, so to speak, ⁓ the surface.

Ben: Very interesting. The one question I t tend to ask agents after they explain to me sort of what their day to day looks like is if there's a part of the thing, the activities that you're doing, for which you could wave a magic wand to fully automate it, is there something that comes to mind for the line of business you're in?

Eli Diamond: Yeah, so AI is growing, right? And I'm not gonna lie, man, I've kinda resisted it. It it scares me a little bit because you know, what's real, what's not. Are we opening Pandora's box? ⁓ you know, AI, you can ⁓ can tell it, hey, find me, you twenty contractors within a radius, it'll spit out a list for ya.

Ben: Yeah.

Eli Diamond: You know, whereas you used to have to like search for ⁓ drive around town, find ⁓ You know, whenever I'm driving around town, I got a pen with me. I'll see a work truck go by, be like, ⁓ I want to look into that company and and maybe, you know, offer my help to ⁓ and I'll I'll jot it down and you'll research it that way. So the AI has created think an easier way to ⁓ and find the It's still ⁓ up you to close the deal, but I think AI at least will get ⁓ you more leads in the sense that it'll make you have more people to call, so to speak.

Ben: That sounds like you already have a solution for that problem though. Is there a particular problem where you still are looking for one, you know, that where there's something that doesn't exist yet that you're like, this really should exist.

Eli Diamond: mean there's so much that goes into commercial it would be cool to have some type of tool to tie all together ⁓ like And what I mean by that is like what are their lot like their loss history? Right. You don't know that without at that at that. And when you're prospecting a company, unless they share your their loss runs or you have a talk with the owner, yeah, had this claim back in, you know, two thousand twenty and I had this one back in ⁓ ninety like, you know, how like unless they tell you the history of what they've gone through, you really don't know. So it would be cool as an agent, 'cause you'd probably wanna maybe potentially avoid those companies that have a lot of claims, right? that would be cool.

Ben: If you could access loss runs without needing to jump through the hoops of the previous carriers, you know, giving you access to that document, is is that kind of what you're saying?

Eli Diamond: Yeah, I think that could help you know who you want to target, who you don't, or if they have a lot of claims like, Hey, we got a solution for you You know, that's how my brain works is how can I find a solution to your problems? Maybe problems you don't even know exist, right? So to help you get ahead ⁓ differentiate yourself in the marketplace, like, hey, we can do this for you, we can do that for you. Like, is your broker doing that? ⁓ know, are you getting support from them? If can ⁓ if was a tool to help you Find those answers out without necessarily having to get someone on the phone, I think that'd be pretty cool.

Ben: I think maybe the reason this comes up for you more is because you have a team that does marketing for you, right? So you don't you don't need to be that involved in in the carrier transaction part necessarily.

Eli Diamond: Yeah, I mean my ever it's all about style too. Some people are super hands on. whereas me, like I trust my marketers. I like the account manager is a is the person who's put on the account to help service it, right? Certificates of insurance. You have a job coming up, you need proof of insurance for ⁓ you to go on the job. Like ⁓ I ⁓ r those, right? Like an account manager would. ⁓ So people wanna be the account manager and also be the producer. You can't do both because my job to basically hunt, bring back the if you will, and then my my team helps me skin it, right? ⁓ Like ⁓ sorry that's graphic, but that's really what we're doing. ⁓ Like I tr so I trust them to skin it. I'll go out and try to find something else for us to eat, right? Like that's kinda people try to do it all, but the most people stay in their lane, trust the people they work with. And it's really like a well oiled machine.

Ben: How long does it typically take for a quote to be turned back around to the client?

Eli Diamond: Yeah, good question. a rule of thumb, honestly, like you wanna be sixty days out. You wanna be ninety days out. So if you renew in three months, I wanna be talking to you today, getting the information as soon I can, because underwriters don't wanna work on stuff when they're up against the gun. And it doesn't give you enough time always to like I said, paint them in a good light. ⁓ You want trying to sell ABC company to the insurance company. So wanna give them time to be able to evaluate it. If issues come up, questions come up about, hey, they're gross sales, what's what are they for this piece do, right? Like if you have a client that is a and they do aviation parts, right? Plane parts, that's excluded off general liability policy nine times out of ten. ⁓ So you gotta procure ⁓ an aviation liability you know? What's the split in sales? Like when you're rushed and stuff, you just can't do the best job. for unless it's a very simple cookie cutter if we're like a month ⁓ away from renewal, maybe I'll shop it for them and you know, remarket it. if we're you really want to be little further ahead of that to make sure you, as the broker, can do the best job for.

Ben: Course. Are there situations where you end up using a wholesaler to place the business with a carrier?

Eli Diamond: For sure. Absolutely. owns a wholesale brokerage, RPS, ⁓ placement services. we those when we can't find it ourselves, more or less. So if you have like roofing, example, no one wants it, you gotta go to a broker, a wholesale broker to get it. that's how the is. So yes, we use ⁓ brokers all the Even though we are a broker, we're kinda using another broker. To to place those risks that people don't want.

Ben: I find it fascinating that roofing is the one that is so hard to place, you know.

Eli Diamond: Yeah, I mean there's other stuff too, but know, roofing is just one that just seems to come to my mind 'cause I've seen it, you know, like there's just minimal carriers for it and you in New York State we have something called labor law and ⁓ don't to get too far into the weeds on it, but that's partly why no one wants to insure people who work heights because there's strict liability towards the person you know, like the general contractor. So you can hire a sub they're up on scaffolding doing the windows for ya. If they get hurt and didn't ⁓ build contract to, you know, put the blame back on them and have their insurance cover them and not your own insurance, you're completely the hook for that. The insurance companies know that. So they're very tentative ⁓ to want ⁓ offer a you know, when there's those labor law laws like there are in the state. So You know, it's also knowing knowing about labor law. Like you like you really are a professional when you're a broker. You you gotta know the you gotta know the laws, it it all ties together so you can be the best consultant you be for your clients.

Ben: You started three years ago. ⁓ If look back at those three years, is there particular part about your job that do you think people would be surprised by that you maybe would have been surprised by three years ago?

Eli Diamond: Hmm. a good question. That's really good question. I think knew it'd hard, Ben. I never thought it'd be this hard. But that's what ⁓ like and respect this field is, you know, you're like I have some prospects. like, yeah, I've been with my guy 30 years, you know, when he retires, I'll give you a shot. Like, I respect that. Like that guy earned, that guy or gal has earned that person's business. So knew it would be hard to break in, but it's man. Like I can why I think it's something like 70% of people don't make it past year five, I want to say it is, or year three, that one of those. ⁓ and I see why, because it's I mean I ⁓ get told every day, ⁓ right? But key to to believe in yourself, you know. Hey, like you might have told no, that's your Loss. I'm gonna find someone who I can help today and you just keep calling, you keep knocking on doors and and you gotta believe in yourself that you you are a solution to to to them whether they know it or not.

Ben: Yeah, it's hard. You must you you have to kind of have a bit of a thick skin, right? And be able to deal with rejection as well.

Eli Diamond: You do, you do. You need to absolutely. Absolutely. nothing worth doing's easy, that's what I tell myself, right? So if was easy, everyone would do it, you know, and and I think you need to somewhat enjoy what you do, whether it be the people interaction, whether it be the complexity of the policy, you know, the policy is a legal document. So when a claim, you know, you're out the policy and and looking at the wordage, what does it say? Because that's what's gonna dictate is the claim paid or not. So there's like gotta like something about it ⁓ in to do it.

Ben: where where do you sort of see yourself in the next three to five to ten years? Do you want to keep working in an like this one? Are there may maybe plans of doing something independently if you're willing to share? Be very interesting to see how you think about the next.

Eli Diamond: Yeah. I plan on just being the best I can be. don't think ⁓ an agency is goal. I kinda that all I do my job is just to produce, right? And take care of ⁓ of who have. So procure new and take care of who you got. Like owning an agency, so much more to it than people think. You know, it's ⁓ sure it's the but it's also You know, where what what system on your computer is gonna hold all your insurance policies of your clients? know, those are could over a hundred thousand dollars a year just to get that program. So there's there's a lot of elements that go into owning an that's not always seen. ⁓ So I for me, I'm definitely gonna as a broker. I think Gallagher is a great place, very reputable. ⁓ If Gallagher can't insure it, honestly it can't be insured. So, you know, for me it's more a personal development, stick it on the path, you know. I I you can't compare yourself to someone in your office who's twenty years ahead of you, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. ⁓ were you better than yesterday? That's what I tell myself every day. as long as you keep doing that, I just wanna be the best, ⁓ know, broker I can be.

Ben: ⁓ was there anything that I didn't cover that you thought ⁓ would make sense to share with your audience?

Eli Diamond: Well I was actually thinking how good your questions are. like you've done this once or twice. But I it's if there's I could ⁓ kinda reiterate just sti say is just ⁓ the consultative role, know, we insurance agents get a name ⁓ and it's I I why, you a lot of people just run around ⁓ trying to win business on and Look, you want me to win business on price, you could cut the heart out of the insurance program, not tell the person the price is twenty grand less, you know, like like I've had some prospects like that, they're like, Well, someone came in at you know, twenty thousand dollars less, I and I'll tell ⁓ you know, the heart was cut out of the program. Like like insurance rates vary, but they have to be evaluated and approved by the state, right? So at least in New York State. So I when there's such a discrepancy in price, there's a reason for it. So know, you wanna make sure you know what have as a business owner. If ⁓ you and you wanna just find someone you trust ⁓ and let handle the insurance, you run the business, ⁓ let handle the insurance and you guys will make a good team.

Ben: Eli, thank you so much for joining the podcast.

Eli Diamond: Thanks, man. Pleasure to be on.