Face-to-Face Insurance Sales with Steven Wiatrek

[00:00] Thanks for joining the podcast. Maybe to kick it off, if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself.

[00:04] My name is Steven Wiatrek. I am a 16-year veteran of the insurance industry. I

[00:09] started out fresh out of college in 2010 for a call center. So I'm a little unique on that side.

[00:14] I worked in a call center for a life insurance company. I spent four years doing that, got married,

[00:20] wanted to buy a home. So I thought I'd go into sales because the peak of the oil boom out here

[00:24] started in South Texas. And I was told I was not salesman material. So by chance, I ended up

[00:29] meeting a gentleman who became my mentor at a captive insurance company, and I'm going to leave

[00:35] their name out of it. But they found me and they basically offered me a desk. So I got my licensing,

[00:40] joined, spent the next 10 and a half years building a $4.5 million book of business,

[00:45] managing about a thousand clients by myself. What led to me leading to going to the independent world

[00:51] was, you know, 2020 hit, the world shut down to COVID. And what I noticed is I am a very hyper

[00:58] servant leader salesman. I do everything face-to-face with my clientele. The world never

[01:02] came back the same. So suddenly meeting my quota requirements for my previous company got harder

[01:09] and harder. In 2024, in July, I was approached by our district sales manager and said, hey, look,

[01:15] man, you're not beating numbers, so you're not longer relevant. So you're either going to make

[01:20] it happen or we don't need you anymore. So I basically went all in. I basically made a special

[01:27] trip from my family vacation, drove three hours around trip to make a meeting, got back and was

[01:32] like, okay, well, you have till November to make it work or else. Fine. Well, November came around,

[01:37] won all kinds of contests, but due to underwriting out of our control, I missed my deadline. I was

[01:42] given a choice to leave voluntarily, which I did at my last day was on December 23rd. So they let

[01:49] me go on Christmas Eve, basically Christmas Eve. Ouch. And yeah, I went, you know, I thought I was

[01:55] retire there. You know, almost 11 years. I was like, man, I'm gonna build a company, I'm gonna do well.

[02:00] And I went from that $4.5 million book to a zero income at Christmas at 24. The firm I'm with now,

[02:07] City Center, which is an insurance distribution company, found me in late January. He said, hey,

[02:12] look, we're expanding, we're going national. We would like for you to come on as a branch on an

[02:17] organization. What do you say? So I basically took a long talk with my wife, prayed on it,

[02:22] And I decided, why go back into the captive world where I don't own my future.

[02:26] I don't own my business.

[02:28] And let's gamble on myself.

[02:30] So I started over in 2025 from zero.

[02:34] And I say zero, zero money marketing, zero money.

[02:37] I started at ground zero.

[02:38] And I built my agency over the last year and a half from that.

[02:42] And, you know, everything's face to face.

[02:45] Basically grown over 200 clients just by handshaking a smile.

[02:50] So what would you say is the focus of city center insurance now?

[02:54] Well, it's a unique hybrid.

[02:57] So, you know, you have your aggravators, you have your true independents, and you have your captives.

[03:01] Well, as a distribution firm, we count as one agency.

[03:05] That's a little loophole in the game.

[03:06] So basically right now there are 65 branches throughout the United States, and we count as one office.

[03:12] So it helps us get better appointments.

[03:13] So I have access to over 60 P&C carriers, not counting your wholesalers like Bruno Wilcox, Holscher, and those guys.

[03:22] And I have another access to over 200 life and health guys and annuities.

[03:26] So being that we can count as one, we don't have to deal with the quota requirements.

[03:30] So basically, we negotiate the best rates with the carriers to provide for us.

[03:34] And I don't have some corporation on my brain down my neck.

[03:37] Hey, you need to push more of this product this month.

[03:40] It's basically set you up, train you, get you up to speed, get you the best resources and good luck.

[03:46] And it's been it's been good.

[03:47] Wait, I've heard this model work is you take a cut of the commission and then some of that goes to city center.

[03:54] So, yes, it's a basic split like your SIA or your Gooseheads or your Brightway.

[04:00] Basically, I have a split and I give a small percentile of it to them.

[04:06] But in turn, you know, I get, you know, I get to still have a software agency fee, but with my agency fee, I get software. I got, we have an exclusive contract with EZLink. So we get an amazing raider. We have all this retention. They have virtual assistants built in. There's so many extra things that make it worth it. You know, when I took this journey, I thought about doing True Independent. And I feel like, and you probably feel the same way, AI is becoming a very touchy subject in the industry.

[04:32] AI, a lot of agents are saying, oh, PNC is going to be gone.

[04:36] It's going to be all AI ran.

[04:37] I disagree.

[04:38] I think AI is a double-edged sword.

[04:40] And I think the true winners in the next five to 10 years are going to be the agents you can adapt to AI, use as a tool to enhance my idea of servant leader and to basically serve the clients the best way you can.

[04:53] I'm going to make a prediction that in the next 10 years, being a human independent agent or a human agent is going to be a luxury flex for clients.

[05:01] How have you used AI in your day-to-day?

[05:04] So my virtual assistant, I'm a one-man show.

[05:07] So basically, I spend most of my time prospecting, doing quotes, networking.

[05:12] Everything I do is based off referral.

[05:14] AI also helps me in my retention.

[05:15] So every morning, I have a list of all my policies coming up for the next 60 days.

[05:20] It's going to show me which ones had the highest percent rate ups.

[05:24] And it's automatically going to run quotes on the background, giving me if they're still the best price or if there's a better option.

[05:31] Now, easy links comes and goes. It has its flaws and it's not going to be always accurate. Right.

[05:36] But it gives me a good starting point to check out and say, OK, this one is significantly more than what this one's showing.

[05:41] Let's go look here and go from there. And then, of course, AI also helps me in my campaigns on.

[05:46] Hey, thank you for reaching out to me. I like to do host quite often talking to other agents.

[05:51] I've basically taken up writing to share my story to other agents and help train the next generation.

[05:56] So AI helps me do my nuggets of knowledge every day to different agents who need assistance and just keep in touch with my clients better.

[06:03] Can you walk me through like a regular day for Steven?

[06:06] Like what are the first few things that you do when you wake up and start about your day?

[06:10] Okay, well, first thing I honest to God do every morning is I'm addicted to work.

[06:14] So I'm gonna wake up about 5.45, 6 o'clock.

[06:17] Before the kiddos wake up, I will have my laptop out because I take that thing everywhere.

[06:21] And I'm going to check my daily emails.

[06:23] If there's anything pressing, I will respond on the spot.

[06:25] If not, I help my wife get the kids ready for school.

[06:29] Once I get all my kiddos dropped off, I start my day here at the office.

[06:33] We'll run our attention, check any changes that need to come through,

[06:37] any, hey, you need to make a payment kind of deal, get that caught up.

[06:40] And I basically will spend the first half of the day quoting.

[06:42] Second half of the day, I like to prospect.

[06:45] So basically, for PNC-wise, believe it or not, the pet store or the grocery store is my best lead source.

[06:52] I teach one method to other agents I work with.

[06:55] I call it the pickle method.

[06:56] And what I like to do is I like to go to the grocery store and play stupid.

[06:59] I will go there.

[07:00] I'll be on the phone.

[07:01] Hey, talking to myself, make something to my wife's on the other end.

[07:04] Can you, what is it you want?

[07:05] Oh, you wanted to deal pickles.

[07:06] And I'll walk up and down the aisle, pretend I can't find pickles.

[07:09] And I'll find someone in that aisle who looks like there would be a good candidate for, you

[07:14] know, a quote, bundle deal.

[07:15] And I'll ask them, hey, have you seen blah, blah, brand of pickles?

[07:18] I swear if it was a snack, it would have bit me.

[07:21] And they go, yeah, sure, sure.

[07:22] It's right here.

[07:23] Oh, great.

[07:23] I appreciate you.

[07:24] thank you so much. If I can ever return to kindness, let me help you with your insurance.

[07:29] Here's my card. And I always give three cards. Psychology on that is I've learned people feel

[07:34] that you are desperate when you give three. So they're more prone to keep one. Because let's

[07:38] be honest, you give somebody one card, they're going to throw it away. They're not going to

[07:40] take it home. So I do stuff like that. Business-wise, I'll pop in with soda waters or cookies or

[07:47] something. And I'll make friends with the secretary. He's like, oh, by the way, remind me,

[07:51] Who's in charge of your business insurance?

[07:53] I forgot.

[07:54] I met one the other day.

[07:55] That's Johnny.

[07:56] Do you mind if I go pop in the back and see him real quick?

[07:58] No, yeah, sure.

[07:58] And I'll get by and I'll say, hey, Rosie up front,

[08:00] front counter, thought we'd be a great fit.

[08:02] We got time to schedule a meeting next week.

[08:04] And I basically will make my appointments that way by playing the secretary.

[08:08] How many of your existing relationships have you won by meeting them

[08:13] through the method you just outlined in real life?

[08:17] So basically, because I've been doing this,

[08:19] I've been in the industry for 16 years, a salesman for 12. I've been doing this since day one. Of my current book of business, I'd say maybe 30% I've met that way. I'm very hands-on. So I live in a small rural community in South Texas, a town of 2,000 people. There's one light town. I've been serving as the pro-tem mayor and councilman for over 10 years. I help run the local Knights of Columbus as a certain knight. And I do most of my networking through the church in the city.

[08:46] And when you serve the community as a genuine person, people are going to come find you for advice.

[08:52] You know, my wife hates that we go to Sunday Mass because I'll go to later Mass.

[08:55] And she's like, we can't get to the car after Mass because everybody wants to talk to you about their questions and their problems.

[09:00] And it's just like, sweetheart, you're doing Lord's work.

[09:03] You know, you're helping families.

[09:04] And, you know, nobody wakes up wanting to be an insurance agent when they grow up as a kid.

[09:09] You know, it just sort of happens.

[09:10] And when you meet that first client that you have to deliver that check to, it becomes real.

[09:16] And it just makes me very passionate when I can help a family or a person.

[09:20] And I see the results of that work.

[09:22] It just goes a long way.

[09:23] What are the types of insurance that are mostly featured in your book?

[09:26] Right now, currently, as I started over right now, it's mostly home and auto.

[09:29] Before, when I was a captive, my niche was farm and ranch.

[09:32] You know, by trait, my family, we've been farmers and ranchers for four generations.

[09:37] I ranch as a hobby these days.

[09:40] So I don't get to do much of it as I'd like to.

[09:42] Right now, it's home auto, some life. I've been dabbling with group health, and I'm working my way into commercial. It's just hard because I do everything face-to-face. So I live an hour and 10 minutes in any rural city. So I literally need to plan my day around going to town to prospect.

[09:58] What is the biggest thing that changed since you entered the insurance space?

[10:02] The industry as a whole has changed.

[10:04] I'd like to say there's a silent extinction going on in the industry.

[10:08] You know, when I started, of course, that was so long ago, all the greats were still there.

[10:13] All the old school salesmen who believed in, you know, face-to-face salesmanship, they were still into business.

[10:21] I see there's a massive, we're getting to the age where everybody's retiring or they're leaving the industry.

[10:26] And here right now in the States, or at least in Texas, one in 10 make it to year two.

[10:30] So I feel like there's not much younger generation coming in the industry who are learning true salesmanship and, you know, good bedside manner with clients.

[10:39] And I just, I feel like the automation and AI is great, but we're streamlining and direct appointing and direct selling too much.

[10:47] I just feel like there's a loss of a personal touch.

[10:49] And where do you think that the unique value that a broker provides comes in?

[10:54] For me, as a, well, I'm not, like I said, I'm not a branch owner, but City Center itself would be the broker.

[10:58] But the advantage is before as a captive, I had one company, one choice. So it was like, you want vanilla or you want vanilla? And, you know, I always had to tell clients, hey, look, this is the best spot in town. There's nowhere you're going to go. You know, I know that's not true. We had to quote us. So I hate to say this, but I did do pressure sales. I did push policies on people that I know darn well could not afford that to make sure I could support for my family.

[11:24] Now, as an independent agent, I get to shop the board. You know, the average quote is going to take me an hour to two hours because I'm going to shop everybody. And if I can give you the best policy, best price, the best claims experience possible, I'm going to sit down and do a full blown review and make sure I understand exactly what you want. You know, it's not like, oh, you need this car. Now it's like, what design do you want? You know, I can do good, cheap and fast. You can't have all three. What do you want? You know, and there's nobody controlling me anymore. I get to do it my way.

[11:54] You just outlined the types of insurance that you like to write the most, which is homeowner's and auto.

[11:58] If someone called you right now and they said, Stephen, I really need a homeowner's quote, what would be the actual next steps that you would do after that inquiry comes in?

[12:06] So the minute someone reaches out to me first, I thank them for calling.

[12:10] I ask them who referred them because I like to know because I always will call that person if I have them as a client and thank them for thinking of me and sharing me.

[12:17] But my standard operating procedures for anybody, I don't care if it's a home, auto, a boat policy or business policy.

[12:23] I want your declarations page because I want to see what you have.

[12:27] You know, not all carriers are created equal.

[12:29] You may have an A-rated company.

[12:31] I may not have access to that specific market at an A-rated.

[12:34] I might have a B-rated, but I want to make sure you have the best policy.

[12:38] So I require a declarations page.

[12:40] If it's an auto, I want the driver's license.

[12:42] If not, I can find it.

[12:43] I have ways.

[12:44] But I always require a declarations page, ID card, driver's licenses, and I'm going to do my due diligence.

[12:50] and I have a little separate quote sheet that I work line by line to get all my information needed

[12:55] and I'm going to sit down and quote it. Funny how you mentioned homes. I run a special unique

[13:00] method with realtors and loan officers. I have never paid a referral finder's fee to any realtor

[13:06] or lender. I tell them, look, I can give you $25 for a referral or we make an exclusive

[13:13] relationship. You treat me as an attorney on retainer. I have an arranged agreement with the

[13:19] local agencies around here, especially Remax, I share an office at Remax. If they send a client to

[13:23] me, I'm going to have that quote done within 45 minutes if I'm in office. If I'm not in office,

[13:29] I will make sure I have it to you within three hours and it's going to be ready to go. And I

[13:33] firmly believe that I literally drop what I'm doing when one of my referral partners contacts me,

[13:39] especially with car salesmen. We all know car salesmen are like us. We live and die by the

[13:44] sell in the commission. Unlike us, they don't get renewals. So when the car salesman, when I meet

[13:49] them, I give them two business cards. So this one has, comes with a $25 gift card, but it stops at

[13:53] five o'clock. Now this card is my personal cell phone and I answer at any time. Now let's be honest,

[13:59] they both are in my cell phone, but I've been known to do a quote at 830 at night. If the call

[14:03] comes through, it's just priority. We can be sitting at the restaurant down the street for

[14:07] family dinner. All comes through, sweetheart, we got to go. Let's go play. I got to get, I got to

[14:11] get back to the house, I have these commitments. And I just believe that if you're going to do

[14:16] customer service, you got to be the best. You know, there's, as you know, there's hundreds and

[14:19] hundreds of insurance companies and thousands of agents. What sells you? Is it going to be your

[14:24] brand? I don't think so. I think each and every one of us agents are the brand. I think that we are the

[14:29] reason people buy the policies. And I think they buy it from us because of what we provide to them.

[14:34] You know, if you make them feel special, you make them feel heard, they're never going to leave.

[14:37] I had clients that had a 20% rate increase, but they stayed because they felt welcomed and heard.

[14:42] What are the typical ways in which you go to the carriers to get the quotes?

[14:46] Well, I run through EasyLinks for personal lines and I'll get my list.

[14:50] And because I don't trust EasyLink system, I still go manually line by line and I go behind it.

[14:55] And I will verify spot check them.

[14:57] Do you mind just expanding on you don't really trust EasyLinks?

[15:00] What is it about EasyLinks?

[15:02] The quick raider quotes it, but it's not always accurate.

[15:05] So Easy Links will get me the quotes.

[15:08] It gives me the list of everybody and it gets their price.

[15:10] What I have learned is that price is going to be off by $200 to $300, give or take, on most carriers.

[15:17] Sometimes they're spot on.

[15:18] Most times they're not.

[15:19] And I've also learned you can never tell a client the prices until you run it in the motor vehicle report.

[15:23] There's just no way.

[15:24] You don't know.

[15:25] You know, because little Johnny probably forgot his accident and tell mom and dad, you know, or whatever the case might be.

[15:30] And it pops up.

[15:31] So I will always run to Easy Links.

[15:33] I will go straight then to the other carrier and I'm going to run each and every one of those again through that carrier.

[15:40] And I'm going to make a compiled spreadsheet and I'm going to put three options because I like three options always.

[15:46] And I say, look, here are my three best recommended options for you.

[15:50] And I email it and I call them.

[15:51] I've always got to you two ways.

[15:53] And I say, keep in mind, this is a clue.

[15:55] I have not run motor vehicle report.

[15:56] I do not stand by any of these prices until I run a motor vehicle report.

[16:00] I don't run a motor vehicle report unless I know you're serious because I'm getting charged. I'm honest with my clients. Look, I'm starting over at zero. I have a family of five, three kids and a wife, a sport family of five. I can't just waste money willy nilly. I need to know you are interested. And if you're committed, I will do it because I never charge an agency fee. I believe that as an agent, I'm here to serve. I'm here to do my job. Quoting and spending my time on you is my job. I am rewarded by earning your business. So I don't charge extra fees.

[16:29] So I want to make sure that you're serious before I lock the prices in.

[16:34] How does running a motor vehicle report work?

[16:36] I click a button on the carrier.

[16:37] That's all it is.

[16:38] I get charged like 20 cents a piece.

[16:40] But when you do, you know, hundreds of quotes a week or a month, it does start to add up.

[16:45] And like I said, I just, I'm very tight at the moment.

[16:48] Now, when it comes to commercial insurance quotes, like I said, I will require the declarations pages.

[16:53] And because most carriers will have, make me fill out a court forms and they're going to ask anyways,

[16:58] I always require a three-year loss report.

[17:00] So if you're going to get me the deck page,

[17:01] you better get me the three-year loss report right away to save time.

[17:04] Are there any particular carriers that are preferred

[17:06] that you would rather see with a quote coming back than others?

[17:09] So right now where I am, because I'm in a unique place of Texas,

[17:13] I'm an hour and 15 minutes from San Antone.

[17:16] I'm about an hour and 45 minutes down to the Texas coast.

[17:19] So I have a very wide variety, and I've been,

[17:21] I've ride clients all over the state.

[17:23] I can be out in the desert one day or up in the hill country,

[17:26] another or East Texas forest, it doesn't matter. But for me along the coastline, if it's a personal,

[17:32] I prefer Safeco. Safeco has a better option, better product, and the wind coverage complements it very

[17:38] well for the Texas wind and hail. In San Antonio market, on homes, I prefer SageShare, to be honest

[17:44] with you. They give you multiple options. They have a great product. They're one of the few that I know

[17:49] that will still allow me to do a 1.5% deductible on roofs. Here in Texas, most of your roofs are,

[17:54] It's just, for me, it's, I need versatility.

[17:57] You know, out where I live, most homes are custom builds.

[17:59] You're not going to run into a home that's less than $350,000.

[18:03] Some carriers are always going to be cheaper than others.

[18:06] And 90% of my clientele are in a high-rated property protection code.

[18:10] So you're going to pay more for the lack of professional firefighters.

[18:14] So for somebody who's going to work with that, it means the world.

[18:17] Now, you know, I know Liberty's getting a good farm product, and I'm excited to test that out

[18:22] because I miss my farm and market niche, but it just takes time.

[18:26] Are you dealing with licenses in several states?

[18:29] Can you walk me through how you think about that space?

[18:31] Like I said, city center, we're going national.

[18:34] We should be in all 50 states within the next, by the end of next year.

[18:37] Through them, I am eligible to get my own licensing and right in these states.

[18:41] However, like I've stated, I'm very hands-on.

[18:44] So for me to expand my branch to another state,

[18:47] I have to feel comfortable with the person who's going to represent me in that state.

[18:50] And I'm very, very picky on the way I do things.

[18:54] I want to, it's like I said, it's a brand.

[18:56] We're each a brand.

[18:57] So I want to make sure that, you know, if I hire, you know, little Joey down in Florida,

[19:03] is little Joey going to do the business I do business?

[19:05] Or is Tom in Nevada going to do business my way?

[19:08] You know, I don't mind if they're not going to be face-to-face as I am.

[19:11] I need to know that they have the same due diligence and the same quality control that

[19:15] I do because I don't want to pay an errors and omission.

[19:17] I think you walked me through the whole workflow from prospecting to then sort of running quotes and even the renewal stuff we touched upon.

[19:23] If you could wave a magic wand to, you know, automate a certain part of your workflow, what would that look like?

[19:31] That's the fun part. You know, I pretty much have that most of it.

[19:35] You know, the retention center for us does that.

[19:39] For me, when I first started, we had to manually shop each one of those every six months.

[19:43] Now it does it for me.

[19:44] They roll out a new program.

[19:46] They have rolled out a software that helps with the Accord forms because I just hate Accord forms.

[19:51] Like, I can't stress it.

[19:52] But before, you know, it's each one.

[19:53] You had to manually fill it out.

[19:55] They have a program now for us where I just fill certain boxes in and it'll pre-fill them all for me for all the optional quotes I need, which saves me a lot of time.

[20:04] Rumor is they're going to get an AI power going, well, I just got to upload deck pages in the next couple of years.

[20:09] I'm looking forward to that.

[20:11] But I prefer most of the stuff to be done between me and a client person.

[20:14] You know, I don't mind AI's magic wanding back office support to help me be more efficient.

[20:20] But I like to be the face of the agency.

[20:22] I like to be with the clients.

[20:23] If I had a choice, I would just meet the walk-in clients all day long.

[20:26] I would just happily sit down, visit with them.

[20:29] And, you know, most times people just come to talk.

[20:32] You know, you'd be surprised how many elderly widows come by just because they need someone to talk to their lonely.

[20:37] And they're the biggest referral source.

[20:39] You know, they got grandkids, they got family, they got neighbors.

[20:42] And, you know, I just want a cheap, affordable, good quality auto insurance carrier because I've learned auto insurance is your magic ticket.

[20:50] Like I always tell producers and agents, what's the biggest door to anybody's home?

[20:54] It's going to be the garage door.

[20:56] So if I won your heart by saving you money on your car insurance, you better believe I can get in there and sell the rest.

[21:01] One thing I learned and I took from my captive insurance days is the review.

[21:07] My old company was very adamant on requiring me to do five to 10 face-to-face reviews a week.

[21:16] So when I started this business, I continued that, except I created my own separate review form.

[21:22] So I learned a lot of us get complacent and we just focus on the renewal and we focus on a new quote, but we don't really know our clients.

[21:30] So with my review form, every evening, I will schedule one or two appointments.

[21:34] I go out to the house. I will go line by line explaining the coverages to them. I will go through to verify all the information on there. If there's loans, take my notes. And I learned in that point is, is there any more rent houses? They bought a boat. They bought RTVs or RVs, whatever. Little Johnny wants to go to A&M or Notre Dame or whatever it might be. I'm learning all this other information. You also learn what they have for health insurance. Do they have investments? Where are their investments? They have 401ks laying out.

[22:04] And then I like to pivot that into the life insurance.

[22:08] And I'm a very big need seller.

[22:10] I'm not one of those guys that are like, oh, you buy a million for whatever.

[22:13] I don't do that.

[22:13] I have a separate form I filled out and I basically start it.

[22:17] And I go in and I say, okay, final expenses.

[22:19] And I turn my review form out.

[22:21] I let the clients fill it out.

[22:22] And I'll write their names on top of each line and say, okay, first is final expense.

[22:25] What does a funeral usually run?

[22:27] Nobody ever knows because most people have not had to deal with that.

[22:30] And here in Texas, if you want a traditional funeral, that's about $25,000.

[22:34] So I say, okay, we'll start with $25,000 or let's bump it to $50,000 because there's always more expenses.

[22:39] And we'll go through personal debt, mortgage, college for kiddos, and readjustment income.

[22:44] And I'll come to a need.

[22:46] And then I would pivot off of that into what I've coined the term spent and gone.

[22:51] Spent and gone is I basically do a 20-year presentation of what the term truly costs, the whole life minus cash value.

[22:58] and I'll pivot to a implied close of option A or B

[23:01] and I'll close a life app.

[23:03] With that style of review and life presentation,

[23:07] I have about maybe a 70%, 80% close ratio.

[23:10] I've never come home empty-handed on a review.

[23:13] There's always some sale.

[23:14] And oh, by the way, you got kiddos,

[23:16] you know, God forbid, you know,

[23:17] kids more likely aren't going to pass away until they're older,

[23:20] but life happens, accidents happen, health happens.

[23:23] Child can become type one diabetic

[23:25] or they become epileptic or they may have seizures.

[23:28] or they may be injured in a car accident that can affect their future insurability,

[23:31] why not do something to protect their future insurability?

[23:35] And parents will dig deep to guarantee that insurability.

[23:38] I had one parent bought a million-dollar whole life once just for little Emily

[23:42] because family had medical history in the past,

[23:45] and they wanted to guarantee that their daughter could have a policy.

[23:48] It's just like I said, the review is a missed opportunity.

[23:50] The daughter having a million-dollar policy, does that mean that if the daughter died,

[23:55] then is that the type of life insurance?

[23:56] So in this case, it was a million dollar whole life. So if a daughter were to pass away after, of course, you have to do medical underwriting. Even while it's being underwriting, they would have paid it. But if the daughter would have passed away at any given time from day one or to day policies terminated or she passes, it's paid out. So a whole life, I tell everybody three things will happen. You live to 120, they paid a million dollars. You die, we paid a million dollars. You quit. You take whatever cash value is. And if there's no, if you've not made money on your investment, that's tax free money.

[24:26] to you. I also like to point out

[24:28] living benefits. You know, you can annuitize

[24:30] it at some point. You know, you can borrow

[24:32] against it. Now, there's a highly owned interest

[24:34] rate, but it is an opportunity.

[24:36] A very large amount of business

[24:38] owners will buy life insurance. I mean, just for

[24:40] a key man or buy

[24:42] sell agreements, or just for

[24:44] the fact that they can have an annuitized

[24:46] retirement at some point. Does the

[24:48] appointment process work in the same way as with

[24:50] PNC and the life insurance?

[24:52] It's, yeah, I actually

[24:54] fill it out when I go to, my

[24:56] my review is about an hour and a half for me because I can knock the review out 30 minutes

[25:00] live. I'll do my presentation in 10, 15. I'm going to sit there and fill the app out while I'm there

[25:05] with them. So it takes a little more time. And we go line by line. We make sure it's correct.

[25:10] And I'm building rapport the whole time. By the time I'm leaving, you know, they're inviting me

[25:13] to go eat dinner with them afterwards. And it's by being face-to-face and doing it that way,

[25:18] you have such a better retention schedule. Back in my captive days, a lot of guys like to do the

[25:22] e-sign where they would fill it out, email it over, they click it, and they got credit.

[25:27] But they never had the great retention.

[25:29] You know, when I was running my $4.5 million book of business, I carried a 90% retention

[25:34] rate across life in the PNC.

[25:36] And that was because I do so much service work on the front end or the back end.

[25:40] I listened to one of your previous podcasts, and the gentleman was talking about doing quotes

[25:44] on Christmas Eve.

[25:45] I do the same thing.

[25:46] My wife would tell you, I don't care where we're at.

[25:48] My computer goes with me on vacation.

[25:50] It goes everywhere.

[25:50] My briefcase or my computer doesn't matter.

[25:53] I can be at Disney World and I'm going to go find a hotspot to do the quote because my clients do come first to me.

[25:59] Is there a particular profile of customer where it'll be hard for you to place their insurance?

[26:05] And how do you deal with situations like that when they arrive?

[26:08] If it was my previous captive days, yes, that would have been a problem.

[26:11] Today, it's not a problem.

[26:13] You know, I have my preferred carriers, my Progressive, my Geico, my Liberty, my Mercury, you name it, you say it.

[26:18] But I have access to a company out of Georgia, Assurance America.

[26:22] You may have heard of them.

[26:23] Their founder, co-founder, founder was Georgia Senator Bud Stumbaugh.

[26:28] His company is designed to work with people with less than desirable auto history or, you know, credit scores or whatever have you.

[26:36] So they don't even run credit checks.

[26:38] They'll run MVR, but they don't check your credit.

[26:40] They don't care.

[26:40] Those type of individuals, I like to place them there.

[26:43] Now, home insurance is a little different because I've seen some very questionable homes.

[26:49] One story, this was when I was still in my old captive company in 2017.

[26:53] I went out to Santone to an older, rougher neighborhood in town to write the house.

[26:58] They wanted me to get insurance.

[26:59] I get there, I open a door, and there's a hole.

[27:02] There's a six-foot by five-foot hole in the middle of the pyramid floor.

[27:07] And you can see the dirt underneath.

[27:08] And she's like, watch your step.

[27:10] We had a water leak here a few years ago.

[27:12] And I looked at her and I was like, yeah, ma'am, there's no way I'm going to be able to do this.

[27:16] What do you think? You can lie.

[27:17] No, ma'am, I will not lie for you and lose my licensing.

[27:20] There's no way in the world.

[27:21] I cannot do this. I will have to pass.

[27:23] Or my favorite, they got the mean dog.

[27:25] You know, I've been to one house, dog's chained in the front yard, he barked.

[27:28] Does your dog bite? Oh, not too much.

[27:30] We're done. Not even going to get out of the truck.

[27:32] I'm sorry. We're not a fit.

[27:34] And I explain to my clients, look, you know, I'm not going to cut corners.

[27:38] I'm going to give you adequate limits.

[27:39] You know, you might say you want state minimums.

[27:41] I don't do state minimums.

[27:43] This is what we're going to do.

[27:43] We're going to look at your assets and we're going to base it off of that.

[27:46] And guess what?

[27:47] We're going to do the review.

[27:48] There's no, hey, write this policy.

[27:51] I'll see you in six months.

[27:52] No, we're going to sit down.

[27:53] We're going to get to know each other.

[27:55] I know I'm not a fit for everybody.

[27:56] I know the way I do business is not a fit for everybody.

[27:58] But if we're going to do business, I need you to trust me as much as I'm going to trust you.

[28:03] Because I'm representing multiple brands, multiple companies.

[28:07] I'm not going to write my name on a bad investment.

[28:08] You know, if you're a bad driver, you have issues, you've had 10 racks, you have a 2,000% loss ratio, I don't want you.

[28:16] And I have passed on some clients.

[28:19] You know, I had one gentleman who used to work for me, and I don't know what the deal was, but we had this one little old lady who kept, you know, harassing him and stalking him and just obsessed with him.

[28:29] And I was like, man, I'm going to have to ask you to leave the agency.

[28:32] I can't be your agent no more.

[28:33] This is getting borderline scary.

[28:36] I'm not going to, I can't improve of this.

[28:37] and we went our separate ways.

[28:39] Can you walk me through the dog example?

[28:41] What was the worry that you had when you saw this?

[28:45] Well, it's a liability for home insurance.

[28:47] Like I said, I'm very people-focused.

[28:50] I'm passionate.

[28:51] I don't know if you can tell.

[28:52] But when I get, and this was another rougher neighborhood in town as well

[28:55] that I got to, and this dog, you know, is a big dog,

[28:59] and it's already on a vicious breed list, you know, German Shepherd,

[29:01] and it's foaming out the mouth, barking on that little chain,

[29:04] and that steel post is holding this bent already, you know.

[29:07] And I'm like, hey, dog bite.

[29:10] No, not too much.

[29:11] We're done.

[29:13] I've actually been bit twice now on appointments.

[29:16] So I'm very picky on that.

[29:18] I used to go to all my appointments in dress shoes and dress slacks.

[29:23] And I went to one.

[29:24] It was a country house.

[29:25] Lady had a blue healer.

[29:26] Dogs at the door jump and bark.

[29:28] And I'm like, hey, this fight will bite.

[29:30] No, I'll go put them up for you.

[29:31] Well, she didn't put them up.

[29:32] She just took them in the backyard and closed the gate, didn't latch it, and said stay.

[29:36] I come out.

[29:37] We finished the paperwork to do the house.

[29:39] And I'm going around because at that carrier, I had to take the photos myself for the home inspection.

[29:44] And I come around the side.

[29:45] Here comes that dog.

[29:46] And next thing you know, it's latched on the back of my ankle.

[29:48] And I can feel the blood pouring out of my leg.

[29:50] That dog just tearing at me.

[29:52] And I'm sitting there hollering, trying to beat him off with my briefcase.

[29:56] And she gets mad at me for hitting her dog.

[29:58] And I'm like, lady, you know, I just got hurt.

[30:00] And I said, you know what?

[30:01] I said, I'm not going to call the law.

[30:02] I'm not even going to send you a medical bill.

[30:04] I'm just not writing your business.

[30:05] I tore the application, gave her a check back and said, we're not a fit. This is a liability risk.

[30:10] And it's just, I take my job serious. I'm not going to write business that I know is going to be flawed.

[30:16] I believe insurance is a pool of experience and I believe a rising tide will raise or lower all ships.

[30:23] So we all have that, you know, obligation to the industry and the profession as a whole to look out for everybody else.

[30:29] I really do believe in a mindset of abundance.

[30:33] So I may not be a fit, but my competitor down the street, who's another independent, might.

[30:38] And I'm going to say, look, your risk, I can't do it.

[30:40] They have a market.

[30:41] They can help you.

[30:42] Let me give you to them.

[30:44] And we do that vice versa.

[30:46] Believe it or not, I get probably 10 quotes a week from competitor or agents in the area

[30:50] because like, hey, we can't place them.

[30:52] Do you want them?

[30:52] Sure.

[30:53] Or if I got something, I know they have a carrier who's going to be not a preferred carrier,

[30:58] but they're cheap.

[30:59] And this person is one of those

[31:01] that I'm not going to meet my criteria.

[31:03] I'm going to be like,

[31:04] hey, Ms. Holly or Ms. Kelly down the street can help you.

[31:07] Here's her personal number.

[31:08] I'll call them, let them know you'll be reaching out.

[31:10] If there's anything else I can do for you or your family,

[31:12] please let me know in the future.

[31:13] My favorite go-to at the end of any conversation

[31:15] or review is, look,

[31:15] if you found what I've done with you today was valuable,

[31:18] if I brought a great service to you,

[31:20] the biggest compliment is tell somebody about me

[31:22] and share my name.

[31:24] Because let's be honest,

[31:25] I am never too busy to help people who are important to you.

[31:28] You know, if you hand them a piece of paper and you ask them, can you give me three names, four names, they never can.

[31:34] But if I give them extra cards and say, hey, I'm never too busy to help the ones you care and love, they're going to tell people about you.

[31:39] If you look into the future, Stephen, what would success look like for the city center branch that you're running in the next five years?

[31:47] For me, honestly, to survive.

[31:49] Like I said, I started at zero.

[31:51] So, you know, I went from making well over six figures with a $4.5 million book, as you can imagine, and I went to zero.

[31:57] So I'm basically right now just trying to survive. I'm learning as I go. I'm growing. For me, I want to hit a million-dollar book of business by the end of next year. That's my goal. And I want to expand that every two to three years. I would like to have four to five agents under me. I would like to potentially work more with the newer branches coming on with city centers. I've got years in the business. I want to help. The whole point of me, like I mentioned, I'm an author. I started writing because I wanted to help other agents.

[32:26] When I left my captive company, I felt that I was no longer useful.

[32:31] I was burnt out.

[32:32] I was no longer needed.

[32:34] That really hits you hard.

[32:36] And it left, you know, a hurt and whole in my heart feeling that I needed something to prove.

[32:40] I don't want people to feel that way.

[32:41] Like you, you're trying to help other people with your podcast.

[32:44] I get emotional on this.

[32:45] But I do this because I want others to not feel the way I did.

[32:49] And if I can teach the next generation, that's what I want to do.

[32:53] I'm just, you know, I'm very passionate about the industry.

[32:55] I think has so much to hold.

[32:56] I hope I one day have a large business.

[32:59] And I'd like to think that one day

[33:01] I'll be the top competitor in my region.

[33:03] But it's a steady process.

[33:05] You know, insurance is not a get-rich-quick industry.

[33:07] I don't care what anybody tells you.

[33:09] Nobody makes it big the first year

[33:11] unless they're doing something shady.

[33:12] Or they got a war chest.

[33:14] It's just a slow, steady march uphill.

[33:16] And maybe one day I'll have a large book myself.

[33:19] Is there anything looking back at, you know,

[33:21] the decade you've already spent in insurance

[33:23] that you learned that you wish you would have known earlier?

[33:26] Yes. I wish I would have left the Captain World a lot sooner.

[33:29] I was a company man all the way.

[33:31] Like I said, I lived and bled for that logo.

[33:33] When I started, I thought I was going to spend my life there.

[33:36] I am loyal to a default.

[33:38] And really, you know, it shows, you know, my family can tell you it affected my family.

[33:45] I started my day early. I got home at 9.30 every night.

[33:48] I lived and bled for that company.

[33:50] And there was a point after COVID till from 2020 to when I left in 24, when I was struggling because I couldn't readopt to adapt to this new world of not so face to face. And, you know, they would joke, hey, you're so upset and you're miserable and you're angry, you're burnt out. And I said, well, I'm still smiling. And I go, what's your secret? I was like, well, you just learned to live with the stress and you learned to live with the hustle culture.

[34:13] Now, I know there's a better way. There's no reason you have to kill yourself for a company who's just going to throw you away the minute you are no longer a cog that fits in the machine. And I tell everybody who's still I know when the captives are my old company, I say, there's a better way. Get out of the golden cage. That money is a trap. You can make it do so much more. You can help more people do an independent route. As an independent now, there's no one telling me I can't go help this client.

[34:41] before like, hey, you can't talk to them because they belong to another agency.

[34:45] Two counties over.

[34:46] Well, why is he in my office asking for my help if they can't do it?

[34:50] And now it's, you come in my office, I can help you.

[34:54] You know, it's, to me, it's a personal mission.

[34:56] I just, I want to help people.

[34:57] Steven, thank you so much for joining the podcast.